The player is loading ...
Dec. 29, 2023
Leading Relentlessly with Stan Partlow
Join Dr. Travis Yates and the insightful Stan Partlow, as we navigate the turbulent seas of police leadership. Stan's lineage in law enforcement paints a vivid backdrop for our candid dialogue on the profession's current predicament, officer retention, and the critical need for commitment within the ranks. Prepare to be challenged and inspired as we dissect the anatomy of leadership, tapping into Stan's wealth of knowledge and his seminal work, "Leading Relentlessly."
Law enforcement leadership isn't just about strategy; it's a relentless pursuit of excellence and continuous improvement. Stan's insights, paired with practical skills and real-world examples, offer an invaluable resource for current and aspiring leaders. So, gear up for an episode that not only peels back the curtain on the complexities of command but also serves as a rousing call to action for all dedicated leaders in the force.
You can order "Leading Relentlessly" here.
Join Our Tribe of Courageous Leaders:
Get The Book
Get Weekly Articles by Travis Yates
Join Us At Our Website
Get Our 'Courageous Leadership' Training
Join The Courageous Police Leadership Alliance
Chapters
00:02 - Law Enforcement Leadership Challenges and Solutions
07:38 - Leadership and Vision in Law Enforcement
17:48 - Defining Leadership and Its Importance
20:59 - Leadership Mistakes, Importance of Relationships
23:59 - Leading Relentlessly
28:43 - The Impact of Leadership on Organizations
42:49 - The Power of Influence in Leadership
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:02.044 --> 00:00:10.448
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice and encouragement they need to lead courageously.
00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:16.827
Well, welcome back to the show you are going to be excited about.
00:00:16.827 --> 00:00:27.027
Our guest today, Stan Partlow, is the founder of Relentless Effort LLC, a practice dedicated to helping people live their best personal and professional lives.
00:00:27.027 --> 00:00:35.709
He served law enforcement for 25 years, serving in the FBI and the Columbus Police Department, retiring as a commander in the detective bureau.
00:00:35.709 --> 00:00:50.908
Stan is a Juris Doctor from the Capital University School of Law, a Master's of Science degree and Administration from Central Michigan University and a Bachelor of Arts degree in Psychology from Bowling Green State University.
00:00:50.908 --> 00:00:55.168
He is the author of a book called Leading Relentlessly.
00:00:55.168 --> 00:00:56.351
It is phenomenal.
00:00:56.351 --> 00:00:58.607
I want to get into that and a lot of other things.
00:00:58.607 --> 00:01:00.183
Stan Partlow, how are you doing, sir?
00:01:01.267 --> 00:01:02.130
I'm great, Travis.
00:01:02.130 --> 00:01:03.905
Thank you so much for having me on.
00:01:03.905 --> 00:01:17.530
I really appreciate the opportunity and really have a lot of respect for the work that you're doing out there trying to help our brothers and sisters figure out how to do this leadership thing in law enforcement much better than we've done it in the past.
00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:18.965
Well, it is interesting.
00:01:18.965 --> 00:01:27.905
You said that, Stan, and I don't even know this answer, but I bet our era is very similar in the profession, and I told this to somebody just the other day.
00:01:27.905 --> 00:01:33.447
I said, man, what really burdens me is, I think that we may be the first generation that left this profession.
00:01:33.447 --> 00:01:36.194
Worse often, when we found it right.
00:01:36.194 --> 00:01:38.867
The last 30, 40 years has been a roller coaster, has it not?
00:01:40.129 --> 00:01:40.531
It has.
00:01:40.531 --> 00:01:44.948
You know, Travis, and the thing that is the canary and the coal mine for me.
00:01:44.948 --> 00:02:13.289
And again, you and I are probably in that same age range where when we served in our career, I'm the middle of three generations of police officers, so my father started in 1961, I grew up in an out environment, I started in 80, I have a son-in-law and a daughter who are married, that both served currently and the thing that to me, the canary and the coal mine that makes your point exactly is that people are leaving in unprecedented numbers.
00:02:13.289 --> 00:02:25.383
In our era the only way that people left was to get another job in another law enforcement agency, or they got hurt and they couldn't do the job anymore, or, unfortunately, they got fired.
00:02:25.383 --> 00:02:30.248
But people didn't quit mid-career to go, you know, do other things.
00:02:30.248 --> 00:02:31.551
It just was unheard of.
00:02:31.551 --> 00:02:42.798
So something has changed and again, maybe that's on us that we didn't leave, we didn't leave our houses in the right shape that the people that before us came.
00:02:42.798 --> 00:02:44.388
But I feel pretty strong.
00:02:44.388 --> 00:02:46.204
We got to figure out a way to fix that.
00:02:47.322 --> 00:02:50.409
Yes, dad, I've had a lot of thoughts about this and I get called all kinds of names.
00:02:50.409 --> 00:02:56.824
But if you look down the five or 10 years in the future, I think the profession goes one or two ways right.
00:02:56.824 --> 00:02:59.887
So what if it goes the wrong way?
00:02:59.887 --> 00:03:01.324
What do you see in five or 10 years?
00:03:02.741 --> 00:03:20.127
Well, I think what we're going to end up with is you know we're going to end up with people that don't care about what they're doing, and to me that's a travesty, because we know you and I know and most of your listeners who are active or retired know how difficult this job is.
00:03:20.127 --> 00:03:28.331
You have to want it, you have to live it In order to put up with the things that you have to put up with.
00:03:28.331 --> 00:03:30.280
I was just reflecting on that over the holidays.
00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:43.350
You know, my son-in-law had to go to work on Christmas Day and you know, all of us that have worn that uniform, whether we're firefighters or police officers or contacts or EMTs or whatever we've all done that.
00:03:43.350 --> 00:04:02.772
We've all made those sacrifices for our family because we believe in something bigger than ourselves, and I really wonder, if we go the wrong way, to your point, whether we have people that are drawn to the profession that are going to look at it that way, and if we don't have those people in the profession, it's a disaster.
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:38.428
I mean, you're going to have people that'll do it for two or three years and go wow, this is hard, I don't want to work on Christmas Day and you know, wow, somebody yelled at me and you know I don't feel good about this and they're going to quit and we're going to see this massive level of turnover and we'll never develop the continuity that we need to develop, where we get those senior officers who really know their craft, who really know their community, who can really do a fair and balanced way of policing in a way that serves the public the best that we possibly can.
00:04:38.428 --> 00:04:44.564
And I share that if we don't figure out a way to get a handle on this, we're not going to ever have that again.
00:04:45.401 --> 00:04:47.428
Yeah, I've got a lot of those fears standing.
00:04:47.428 --> 00:04:51.444
I know you're like me and just troubles me late at night when I think about it.
00:04:51.444 --> 00:05:00.916
But I think we have to also be careful about because I see a lot of leaders talking about well, you know, this is just kind of the way it is now.
00:05:00.916 --> 00:05:11.338
We don't go to the same calls we used to go to, we don't staff the same divisions we used to staff, we don't have enough officers and it's almost like if it goes on too long, that will just become the new normal in policing.
00:05:11.338 --> 00:05:17.944
You know, you watch TV now and it's almost like commonplace to see a riot or a store being looted and people don't even hesitate.
00:05:17.944 --> 00:05:19.605
I don't even think about that anymore.
00:05:19.605 --> 00:05:30.569
So there's a big concern with that, is there not, that we'll never get it back because we will sort of we were sort of making people believe this is the way it's supposed to be well, I think there is some.
00:05:31.312 --> 00:05:45.365
I think there is some Wisdom in what you're saying, but I also think that there has to be some recognition amongst the leadership that things have changed and the leaders that are the good leaders have to respond to the change.
00:05:45.365 --> 00:05:54.711
You know, I, if I reflect back I was saying this to somebody the other day Every generation of police officers has its issues.
00:05:54.711 --> 00:05:59.880
My father's generation was the civil rights movement, the Vietnam War protests.
00:05:59.880 --> 00:06:06.019
You're in my generation, included you know the war on crack and Rodney King.
00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:13.285
You know the current generation, you know, includes George Floyd, and, and, and and a whole list of other things.
00:06:13.285 --> 00:06:15.665
The technology is different in every era.
00:06:15.665 --> 00:06:20.603
We didn't have to, we didn't have bodycams and those kind of things.
00:06:20.603 --> 00:06:20.944
Back in our day.
00:06:20.944 --> 00:06:30.244
My dad, my dad literally started in 1961, where they didn't even have portable radios, they were using call boxes, so you know, but they still got the job done.
00:06:30.264 --> 00:06:40.581
So I think, my humble opinion, I think that police leaders that are sitting there saying that this is the way it is Are literally no pun intended.
00:06:40.581 --> 00:06:52.425
Copying out Policing is going to be the way you make it, and one of the fundamental, in my opinion, one of the fundamental missions of a leader Is to create the vision for their organization.
00:06:52.425 --> 00:07:03.264
No matter where they are in the food chain, whether they're the chief or they're a sergeant running a shift, their job is to create a vision for that organization.
00:07:03.264 --> 00:07:14.875
They also are responsible for ensuring that the right culture is in place and the right organization and the right and the culture includes, in my view, a strategy to achieve that vision.
00:07:14.875 --> 00:07:19.396
And then, thirdly, they're responsible for holding people accountable to make sure that vision occurs.
00:07:19.396 --> 00:07:26.538
So to sit there and let someone else create a vision for your department, I feel like that that's you giving up.
00:07:26.538 --> 00:07:36.605
You create that vision and and there are agencies in this country that are out there doing that work and I think that's one of your messages that you know as you talk about.
00:07:38.190 --> 00:07:41.242
When you talk out there to leaders, you're telling them you know you can.
00:07:41.242 --> 00:07:42.185
You can do this differently.
00:07:42.185 --> 00:07:44.473
You don't have to accept the status quo.
00:07:44.473 --> 00:07:47.334
And now is it gonna be easy?
00:07:47.334 --> 00:07:48.961
No, it's not gonna be easy.
00:07:48.961 --> 00:07:54.939
It's gonna be tough, you're gonna be swimming upstream, but I still believe in my heart of hearts that we can.
00:07:54.939 --> 00:07:57.064
We can define the vision for policing.
00:07:57.064 --> 00:08:02.184
We don't have to accept what someone else gives us and do we have to change it.
00:08:02.184 --> 00:08:07.137
Sure, we got to respond to, you know, to the political you know.
00:08:07.685 --> 00:08:09.610
Again, I look back at my dad's career.
00:08:09.610 --> 00:08:14.245
I imagine you know people in the 50s and 60s responding to the civil rights movement.
00:08:14.245 --> 00:08:15.629
You know they.
00:08:15.629 --> 00:08:26.432
That was unheard of but they had to figure it out and they made some great mistakes and they created some real challenges but eventually, you know, they figured out how to do policing.
00:08:26.432 --> 00:08:29.925
I mean, when I started in 1980, we all had PR 24s.
00:08:29.925 --> 00:08:34.225
We didn't have those act right, a king right, and for good reason, right I mean.
00:08:34.225 --> 00:08:36.273
So we had to adjust, we had to adapt.
00:08:36.273 --> 00:08:42.924
Somebody had to create a vision of how we were gonna do policing after that incident and I don't think that it's that much different today.
00:08:42.924 --> 00:08:49.524
The issues may be different but the concept of a leader setting the vision for their agency, in my view, has never changed.
00:08:49.990 --> 00:08:54.865
No, I think you nailed it and I think if we could talk about one issue and one issue alone, you nailed it.
00:08:54.865 --> 00:08:58.854
So we're letting the other people set our agenda, let other people set our mission.
00:08:58.854 --> 00:09:02.514
Other people tell us what police work is and leaders just need to lead it is.
00:09:02.514 --> 00:09:03.477
It is that simple?
00:09:03.477 --> 00:09:08.192
Yeah, of course it's difficult, but we have done it, stan, and that's an excellent point.
00:09:08.192 --> 00:09:14.009
Before I get too far down a rabbit hole that I created here, talking to you, kind of tell us you've got a vision.
00:09:14.029 --> 00:09:17.937
Leadership that, if you don't mind me saying, is it's unique and I love it.
00:09:17.937 --> 00:09:19.048
I have.
00:09:19.048 --> 00:09:19.932
I'm kind of a.
00:09:19.932 --> 00:09:22.825
I don't collect it, but I, you know, I grab leadership books.
00:09:22.825 --> 00:09:26.436
I probably have five or six hundred leadership books from all ranges.
00:09:26.436 --> 00:09:31.898
I've my education's in that, so I collected those along the way and they all read very similar stand.
00:09:31.898 --> 00:09:33.105
I'm sure you've done the same thing.
00:09:33.105 --> 00:09:36.275
I pick open these books up and they all read very similar.
00:09:36.275 --> 00:09:38.664
Some have different marketing schemes or different authors.
00:09:38.664 --> 00:09:40.625
I read 20 John Maxwell books.
00:09:40.625 --> 00:09:45.753
I felt like I read one book and I love the guy, but they all look very familiar, but not your book stand.
00:09:46.234 --> 00:09:51.650
And you did something that I have keep, keep harping on people when they contact me about wanting to publish and author things.
00:09:51.650 --> 00:09:53.607
Don't reinvent the wheel.
00:09:53.607 --> 00:09:56.494
Let it come from you, let it come from your experiences.
00:09:56.494 --> 00:10:00.148
So I this book, folks, is phenomenal called leading Relentlessly.
00:10:00.148 --> 00:10:03.760
I love the cover stand course I'm kind of into that stuff, but anyway it's a great book.
00:10:03.760 --> 00:10:04.725
The inside's much better.
00:10:04.725 --> 00:10:05.447
It's awesome.
00:10:05.447 --> 00:10:08.476
But, stan, this, this didn't just happen overnight.
00:10:08.476 --> 00:10:16.259
We haven't touched on your career and your experiences and quite what led you to this day, because this is now your passion and your mission.
00:10:16.259 --> 00:10:21.778
Tell us about your career and kind of what shaped you to come up with the ideas that you put forward in this great book.
00:10:22.988 --> 00:10:23.230
Well.
00:10:23.230 --> 00:10:25.164
So thank you so much for the kind words.
00:10:25.164 --> 00:10:38.065
I mean that means a lot to me, coming from someone like you who's out there doing this kind of work in the world, and you have the, you know, senior executive experience in the law enforcement community to back that up, and your education as well.
00:10:38.065 --> 00:10:39.549
So thank you for that.
00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:41.154
So you know, I'm just a.
00:10:42.427 --> 00:11:06.650
Actually, the truth be known, I'm a dumb, fat kid from the east side of Columbus who, who you know, grew up in a police house and household and was the first one in my family to go to college and my dad hammered me pretty hard and, you know, ended up losing a bunch of weight and trying to figure out how to make my way forward in the world and and Join the police department and to follow in his footsteps Right out of college.
00:11:06.650 --> 00:11:21.451
And then had an opportunity to do you know what everybody else in that business does and you know push that car around and I worked in undercover narcotics, assignment and few other things here and there, and then I had an opportunity to become an FBI agent, which was an incredible experience.
00:11:21.451 --> 00:11:37.644
I left the department, joined the bureau, went to Raleigh, north Carolina, lived there for four years and in that time frame, and they in the mid to late 80s, every, every first office agent had to transfer to, you know, to a top ten or top one became top twelve.
00:11:37.725 --> 00:11:38.270
Did they get?
00:11:38.270 --> 00:11:41.333
They did give you a little pay increase stand, but yeah, you had to, you had to work.
00:11:41.384 --> 00:11:43.333
Well, actually, actually truth, truth be known.
00:11:43.333 --> 00:11:46.437
Travis, in 1988 there was no pay increase.
00:11:46.518 --> 00:11:50.465
Okay, okay, they changed that the early 90s, when I was talking to you right.
00:11:50.664 --> 00:11:54.336
So I got my ticket to New York with no pay increase.
00:11:54.336 --> 00:12:12.928
Oh, wow, and you know, and I am, by that time I had two little girls, I had an incredible wife who you know I love dearly, and and she was home sick as all get out and I looked at my two little kids and the conditions in New York at that time and 1988.
00:12:12.928 --> 00:12:16.825
Most of the agents were living two hours outside the city just to afford to live.
00:12:16.825 --> 00:12:19.715
They were driving in from Yardley, Pennsylvania, Bucks County.
00:12:19.865 --> 00:12:23.201
That was pre Giuliani were so, so crime was pretty, yeah out of control.
00:12:23.363 --> 00:12:28.716
Oh yeah, I mean, for me personally it would have been a rock and roll, the roller coaster.
00:12:28.716 --> 00:12:29.591
I would.
00:12:29.591 --> 00:12:35.788
I would have probably had a blast, but for my family it would have been pretty rough.
00:12:35.788 --> 00:12:41.967
And I just made you know after lots of praying and talking to my wife and Thinking about it.
00:12:41.967 --> 00:12:43.273
I just I said you know what?
00:12:43.273 --> 00:12:46.904
This doesn't make sense for us as a family to do this.
00:12:46.904 --> 00:12:58.989
So we didn't and I resigned from the FBI and I was so blessed that I was able to go back to Columbus and and rejoin the department, even after being gone for years and and and.
00:12:59.029 --> 00:13:18.139
Then I, you know, went through the rest of my career, went back to school and ended up getting promoted to the level commander, and then I got this incredible opportunity to jump to retire and jump to the private sector and I spent 15 years in a big electric utility company, in fact the.
00:13:18.139 --> 00:13:22.865
When I was looking at your bio, you know part of our company, pso.
00:13:22.865 --> 00:13:28.116
So that was part of our, that was one of our subsidiary companies, because you were in Tulsa, right?
00:13:28.116 --> 00:13:32.793
Yes, sir, yeah, so PSO obviously has that, that service territory.
00:13:32.793 --> 00:13:59.259
I made many a trip to Tulsa during my tenure with AEP and I spent 15 years and ended up being a vice president and chief security officer there, and so I think the genesis of the book is 40 years of work 27 of the 40 were responsible for other formally responsible for other human beings and An opportunity to work at a pretty high level in two completely different organizations.
00:14:00.341 --> 00:14:50.849
And so what you see there is that sort of you know, that combination of things I learned as a police leader, but also the things I learned as a private sector leader, and one of the things that really struck me as I was sitting there thinking about writing the book was that, in my mind, what we really need to do in law enforcement in many agencies is lead like you have to lead in the private sector, and what I mean by that is this if you leave your law enforcement, if you have listeners that are thinking about hey, I want a job in a security job in a private sector company after I retire from law enforcement and I want to be a director, manager or vice president and CSO, whatever and they lead like most police leaders lead.
00:14:50.849 --> 00:15:01.946
I guarantee you they will fail, because there's no place in corporate America right now for command and control If you try to lead with command and control in those organizations you will create.
00:15:01.946 --> 00:15:03.764
They don't want to hear it.
00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:06.183
They don't want to talk about it, they're afraid of it.
00:15:06.183 --> 00:15:08.807
So you better figure out another way to lead.
00:15:08.807 --> 00:15:10.345
So I didn't.
00:15:10.345 --> 00:15:14.905
I will be the first to admit that during my law enforcement career I never thought about that.
00:15:14.905 --> 00:15:19.306
I never sat there and thought, hey, I'm better figure this out because I want a job somewhere else.
00:15:19.306 --> 00:15:31.446
But there was a little voice inside my head that came from my father, Stan Parlow Sr, who retired as a sergeant with Collins PD, who always said to me boy, never forget where you came from.
00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:37.068
And so during my law enforcement career, I really tried to lead with my heart.
00:15:37.068 --> 00:15:40.168
I tried to lead with servant leadership.
00:15:40.168 --> 00:15:43.625
I didn't use command and control.
00:15:43.625 --> 00:15:47.730
I didn't feel like I needed to use command and control very rarely.
00:15:47.730 --> 00:15:57.331
I mean, there were a couple of incidents probably where I actually had to do that, but I just didn't need to do that, and so I was able to have a pretty successful career in that environment.
00:15:57.331 --> 00:16:12.504
And then, when I shifted to the private sector, it was pretty easy for me because I didn't have to unlearn a bunch of really bad habits Like, okay, I have more stuff on my shoulder than you do, so you're gonna do what I tell you to do In the private sector.
00:16:12.745 --> 00:16:16.107
If you try that, you will last for about a week and you'll be gone.
00:16:16.107 --> 00:16:18.765
It's all about collaboration.
00:16:18.765 --> 00:16:23.528
It's you know, it's leading from the front, it's being a player coach, all of those things.
00:16:23.528 --> 00:16:26.750
So I guess that's really how the book all came about.
00:16:26.750 --> 00:16:59.865
Is as I was sitting there after I retired from AP thinking about, you know, my leadership journey, I thought you know I had a really unique opportunity to you know, spend a lot of time in two different kinds of organizations and look at the leadership styles that I saw in both of them and try to figure out what I thought were the best of you know, best of both worlds, if you will, and then try to combine that you know in the book to show people that there was a different way to do this and I felt like they could be more successful if they would think about it a little different.
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:07.390
If you just now join us, we're talking to Stan Partlow, the author of the excellent book Leading Relentlessly.
00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:17.242
And, Stan, you're right when you compare leadership in business organizations for profit organizations and then government.
00:17:17.242 --> 00:17:19.009
I'll just run government on the one.
00:17:19.009 --> 00:17:24.428
You better follow the business strategies because they don't get to do what government does right.
00:17:24.428 --> 00:17:27.368
Our budgets can be tanked and we're still good.
00:17:27.368 --> 00:17:30.989
We don't have to fire employees in a bad economic year.
00:17:30.989 --> 00:17:39.126
We if a citizen calls 911 on a Saturday, they don't like our customer service, but they call 911 on a Sunday, they get the same exact company shows up.
00:17:39.126 --> 00:17:40.163
They don't have a choice there.
00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:41.523
In the private world.
00:17:41.523 --> 00:17:48.221
They've learned that if you don't adapt and change rather quickly, you die, you don't exist, and so you can better believe that.
00:17:48.221 --> 00:17:57.171
When you compare the leadership styles, if you have to pick one, it better be in the business world, and we are often a victim of our own success.
00:17:57.171 --> 00:18:03.247
Meaning I was hired at the age of 21 to be a Tulsa police officer and I didn't do anything else until I was 52.
00:18:03.247 --> 00:18:05.105
Now I was different.
00:18:05.105 --> 00:18:06.364
I had businesses.
00:18:06.364 --> 00:18:08.423
I've owned a couple of businesses through the years.
00:18:08.423 --> 00:18:17.826
I've worked in the private industry through the years in addition to that, but for most cops that's what they know and they get out and they think the world is like the inside of that police department.
00:18:17.826 --> 00:18:24.384
But the truth is the world is completely the opposite of the inside of that police department and they better figure that out whether you're gonna have a difficult time now.
00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.368
That's absolutely, absolutely, 100% right.
00:18:28.368 --> 00:18:39.068
And one of the things that I encourage people to do is and this is this when I tell people this, they kind of look at me with this kind of weird look on their face, weird expression.
00:18:39.068 --> 00:18:45.428
I said, if you're gonna be a leader, one of the things you ought to do is really sit down and define leadership for yourself.
00:18:45.428 --> 00:18:52.144
And the reason that I say that is because we don't do that, especially in law enforcement.
00:18:52.144 --> 00:18:52.962
We get promoted.
00:18:52.962 --> 00:18:55.001
You know, you and I got promoted to sergeant.
00:18:55.001 --> 00:19:00.384
They pinned those stripes on us and they said maybe you have a little FTO period with another sergeant.
00:19:00.384 --> 00:19:02.306
And they said go forth and prosper, young man.
00:19:02.306 --> 00:19:04.928
And you were like I have no idea how to do this, right?
00:19:04.928 --> 00:19:06.786
So what does leadership even mean?
00:19:06.786 --> 00:19:08.261
And you sit there.
00:19:08.563 --> 00:19:14.045
If you sit there and really think about it and you come up with a definition, it does a few things for you.
00:19:14.045 --> 00:19:19.266
Number one, it helps you focus on the things that are important to you as a leader.
00:19:19.266 --> 00:19:26.548
And number two, it helps you with a measuring stick so that you understand that.
00:19:26.548 --> 00:19:28.884
You've got a doctor degree, you understand the metrics right.
00:19:28.884 --> 00:19:31.146
You've got to have a way to measure yourself.
00:19:31.146 --> 00:19:33.867
How do I know whether I'm winning or losing here.
00:19:33.867 --> 00:19:37.262
Well, if you never define it for yourself, you really don't know.
00:19:37.262 --> 00:19:42.846
You're just sort of bumbling around like a pinball day to day, and some days are better than others.
00:19:42.846 --> 00:19:45.807
So I actually did that many years ago.
00:19:45.807 --> 00:20:01.269
I mean many years ago and the reason I did it was because I had the opportunity, as an adjunct professor, to teach a leadership class at a local college and one of the things that I asked my students to do was each one of them to define leadership on night one.
00:20:01.269 --> 00:20:15.489
And then when we finished the class, I said look at that definition, see if you want to adjust it, if you want to change it based upon what you've learned, what you've read, what you've discussed with your peers said here in the class, your cohort, and then use that to go forward.
00:20:15.489 --> 00:20:20.192
So for me, leadership is all around developing real.
00:20:20.192 --> 00:20:20.982
It's the art.
00:20:20.982 --> 00:20:22.888
I call it the art because it's not a science.
00:20:22.888 --> 00:20:25.367
I wish it were, but you know that it's not a science.
00:20:25.367 --> 00:20:32.548
It's an art, the art of developing relationships in order to influence others to achieve a common goal.
00:20:32.548 --> 00:20:40.066
And if you deconstruct that definition, it's really got three T words relationships, influence and goal.
00:20:40.066 --> 00:20:42.506
So you can take in my mind.
00:20:42.506 --> 00:20:52.806
I can take my definition into any situation I go into and I have to look at the whatever that opportunity is and say, okay, what's the goal we're trying to get to?
00:20:52.806 --> 00:20:58.249
How do I develop the right relationships with people to influence them to achieve the goal?
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:09.431
In my mind, the biggest mistake that law enforcement leaders make is they think that command and control takes the place of relationships, and it does not.
00:21:09.431 --> 00:21:11.627
And you and I both have seen that in our careers.
00:21:11.627 --> 00:21:41.339
I know where you've seen the demon seed that I call malicious compliance, where you walk in there as the new boss and everybody's got to salute you or stand at attention or whatever you know, depending on your rank, whatever they have to do to satisfy the protocols, and you ask somebody a question and you're not the subject matter expert and they give you the exact answer to the question that you asked them, that they don't give you the rest of the story, the Paul Harvey part of it.
00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:49.742
And then something goes south and you call that person in your office and you're ready to rip them a new one and you go why didn't you tell me about bus and such?
00:21:49.742 --> 00:21:55.700
And they look at you with that nasty little you know grin on their face and go sir, you didn't ask me that.
00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:58.784
And then you gotta go damn, you're right, I didn't.
00:21:58.784 --> 00:22:00.521
So not a whole lot I can do about this.
00:22:00.795 --> 00:22:16.179
Now, if you flip it around and you create the right relationship, what you're gonna have is that person come to you and say hey, boss, I know you asked me this and here's the answer to that, but you also need to know this, this and this, because that's gonna come back to you know, to potentially bite us.
00:22:16.934 --> 00:22:23.823
That's what I wanted, and so for me, it was never about me telling people I'm the lieutenant, I'm the commander, I'm the sergeant.
00:22:23.823 --> 00:22:24.538
They knew that.
00:22:24.538 --> 00:22:30.903
I just wanted to have a relationship with them where they trusted me and I could say hey, boys, we need to do X, y or Z.
00:22:30.903 --> 00:22:43.398
Tell me how to get it done and use that incredible amount of experience that they had to come back to me and said here's what we think the best path forward is, and obviously I'm accountable at the end of the day and I make the ultimate call.
00:22:43.398 --> 00:22:44.142
And they knew that.
00:22:44.142 --> 00:23:06.042
But at least they felt like it was a two-way discussion and my relationship with them demonstrated trust and caring and servant leadership and all those things, and then I have the ability to enforce and influence them, even if what we were gonna do wasn't exactly what they thought we should do, and I think that's a huge piece that's missing in almost in many, many long-course leaders.
00:23:06.934 --> 00:23:10.586
Yeah, I think we may be in this sort of this circle of chaos.
00:23:10.586 --> 00:23:13.064
I call it incestual leadership in my seminars.
00:23:13.064 --> 00:23:15.301
Probably not a good term, but this is what it means.
00:23:15.301 --> 00:23:19.326
All the poor leaders you're working for learn from the poor leaders that they worked for.
00:23:19.326 --> 00:23:21.041
They learn from the poor leaders that they worked for.
00:23:21.041 --> 00:23:25.301
And someone's gotta get in the middle and stop it right and figure this thing out.
00:23:25.414 --> 00:23:28.797
Because how many of us listen and have got a new chief that's coming in.
00:23:28.797 --> 00:23:47.039
We get all excited because we've been living under turmoil under the current chief and then new chief comes in, he's got a couple of weeks of, we got a hope and change happening and the next thing you know is just like the other chief right, Because they find out rather quickly, Stan, that hey, they're not gonna fire me for not doing my job, they're only gonna fire me if I really do my job and work hard and try to make some changes.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:58.961
And so these chiefs just kind of end up just sort of setting still too often and I cannot tell our audience enough about the book Very few leadership books do I recommend, Even some ones that everyone recognizes.
00:23:58.961 --> 00:24:00.641
I read them and I go, I've already read that book.
00:24:00.641 --> 00:24:06.662
They've got some slick marketing, some cool little sayings and some tactical look pages, but I've already read that book.
00:24:06.755 --> 00:24:07.878
Very few books do I go.
00:24:07.878 --> 00:24:09.144
You need to get this book.
00:24:09.144 --> 00:24:10.842
This is one of them, called Leading Relentlessly.
00:24:10.842 --> 00:24:13.659
It was actually my go when I wrote my book the Courageous Police Leader.
00:24:13.659 --> 00:24:20.921
I did not want to write a book that everybody else wrote and that can be a good thing and a bad thing, because a lot of non-law people want to hear what you have to say, right, Stan?
00:24:20.921 --> 00:24:24.558
So when you talk about leading relentlessly, what does that actually mean?
00:24:25.595 --> 00:24:29.640
Well, so that's the other part of this thing, right, and we know so.
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:36.000
One of the exercises that I share in the book that I encourage people to do is as old school as it gets.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:59.482
If you want to decide what kind of leader you want to be, take a piece of paper, draw a line down in the middle, put good boss on one side, bad boss on the other side, and write all those characteristics down on both sides and think about the good bosses you've had in your life and you've had some and think about the bad bosses, and then some of them will have attributes on both sides, because none of us are perfect, right, so you got to give people a little grace there.
00:24:59.482 --> 00:25:06.143
But when you start pulling together those things on the good boss side, you'll start finding some themes.
00:00:02.044 --> 00:00:10.448
00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:16.827
00:00:16.827 --> 00:00:27.027
00:00:27.027 --> 00:00:35.709
00:00:35.709 --> 00:00:50.908
00:00:50.908 --> 00:00:55.168
00:00:55.168 --> 00:00:56.351
00:00:56.351 --> 00:00:58.607
00:00:58.607 --> 00:01:00.183
00:01:01.267 --> 00:01:02.130
00:01:02.130 --> 00:01:03.905
00:01:03.905 --> 00:01:17.530
00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:18.965
00:01:18.965 --> 00:01:27.905
00:01:27.905 --> 00:01:33.447
00:01:33.447 --> 00:01:36.194
00:01:36.194 --> 00:01:38.867
00:01:40.129 --> 00:01:40.531
00:01:40.531 --> 00:01:44.948
00:01:44.948 --> 00:02:13.289
00:02:13.289 --> 00:02:25.383
00:02:25.383 --> 00:02:30.248
00:02:30.248 --> 00:02:31.551
00:02:31.551 --> 00:02:42.798
00:02:42.798 --> 00:02:44.388
00:02:44.388 --> 00:02:46.204
00:02:47.322 --> 00:02:50.409
00:02:50.409 --> 00:02:56.824
00:02:56.824 --> 00:02:59.887
00:02:59.887 --> 00:03:01.324
00:03:02.741 --> 00:03:20.127
00:03:20.127 --> 00:03:28.331
00:03:28.331 --> 00:03:30.280
00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:43.350
00:03:43.350 --> 00:04:02.772
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:38.428
00:04:38.428 --> 00:04:44.564
00:04:45.401 --> 00:04:47.428
00:04:47.428 --> 00:04:51.444
00:04:51.444 --> 00:05:00.916
00:05:00.916 --> 00:05:11.338
00:05:11.338 --> 00:05:17.944
00:05:17.944 --> 00:05:19.605
00:05:19.605 --> 00:05:30.569
00:05:31.312 --> 00:05:45.365
00:05:45.365 --> 00:05:54.711
00:05:54.711 --> 00:05:59.880
00:05:59.880 --> 00:06:06.019
00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:13.285
00:06:13.285 --> 00:06:15.665
00:06:15.665 --> 00:06:20.603
00:06:20.603 --> 00:06:20.944
00:06:20.944 --> 00:06:30.244
00:06:30.264 --> 00:06:40.581
00:06:40.581 --> 00:06:52.425
00:06:52.425 --> 00:07:03.264
00:07:03.264 --> 00:07:14.875
00:07:14.875 --> 00:07:19.396
00:07:19.396 --> 00:07:26.538
00:07:26.538 --> 00:07:36.605
00:07:38.190 --> 00:07:41.242
00:07:41.242 --> 00:07:42.185
00:07:42.185 --> 00:07:44.473
00:07:44.473 --> 00:07:47.334
00:07:47.334 --> 00:07:48.961
00:07:48.961 --> 00:07:54.939
00:07:54.939 --> 00:07:57.064
00:07:57.064 --> 00:08:02.184
00:08:02.184 --> 00:08:07.137
00:08:07.685 --> 00:08:09.610
00:08:09.610 --> 00:08:14.245
00:08:14.245 --> 00:08:15.629
00:08:15.629 --> 00:08:26.432
00:08:26.432 --> 00:08:29.925
00:08:29.925 --> 00:08:34.225
00:08:34.225 --> 00:08:36.273
00:08:36.273 --> 00:08:42.924
00:08:42.924 --> 00:08:49.524
00:08:49.990 --> 00:08:54.865
00:08:54.865 --> 00:08:58.854
00:08:58.854 --> 00:09:02.514
00:09:02.514 --> 00:09:03.477
00:09:03.477 --> 00:09:08.192
00:09:08.192 --> 00:09:14.009
00:09:14.029 --> 00:09:17.937
00:09:17.937 --> 00:09:19.048
00:09:19.048 --> 00:09:19.932
00:09:19.932 --> 00:09:22.825
00:09:22.825 --> 00:09:26.436
00:09:26.436 --> 00:09:31.898
00:09:31.898 --> 00:09:33.105
00:09:33.105 --> 00:09:36.275
00:09:36.275 --> 00:09:38.664
00:09:38.664 --> 00:09:40.625
00:09:40.625 --> 00:09:45.753
00:09:46.234 --> 00:09:51.650
00:09:51.650 --> 00:09:53.607
00:09:53.607 --> 00:09:56.494
00:09:56.494 --> 00:10:00.148
00:10:00.148 --> 00:10:03.760
00:10:03.760 --> 00:10:04.725
00:10:04.725 --> 00:10:05.447
00:10:05.447 --> 00:10:08.476
00:10:08.476 --> 00:10:16.259
00:10:16.259 --> 00:10:21.778
00:10:22.988 --> 00:10:23.230
00:10:23.230 --> 00:10:25.164
00:10:25.164 --> 00:10:38.065
00:10:38.065 --> 00:10:39.549
00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:41.154
00:10:42.427 --> 00:11:06.650
00:11:06.650 --> 00:11:21.451
00:11:21.451 --> 00:11:37.644
00:11:37.725 --> 00:11:38.270
00:11:38.270 --> 00:11:41.333
00:11:41.384 --> 00:11:43.333
00:11:43.333 --> 00:11:46.437
00:11:46.518 --> 00:11:50.465
00:11:50.664 --> 00:11:54.336
00:11:54.336 --> 00:12:12.928
00:12:12.928 --> 00:12:16.825
00:12:16.825 --> 00:12:19.715
00:12:19.865 --> 00:12:23.201
00:12:23.363 --> 00:12:28.716
00:12:28.716 --> 00:12:29.591
00:12:29.591 --> 00:12:35.788
00:12:35.788 --> 00:12:41.967
00:12:41.967 --> 00:12:43.273
00:12:43.273 --> 00:12:46.904
00:12:46.904 --> 00:12:58.989
00:12:59.029 --> 00:13:18.139
00:13:18.139 --> 00:13:22.865
00:13:22.865 --> 00:13:28.116
00:13:28.116 --> 00:13:32.793
00:13:32.793 --> 00:13:59.259
00:14:00.341 --> 00:14:50.849
00:14:50.849 --> 00:15:01.946
00:15:01.946 --> 00:15:03.764
00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:06.183
00:15:06.183 --> 00:15:08.807
00:15:08.807 --> 00:15:10.345
00:15:10.345 --> 00:15:14.905
00:15:14.905 --> 00:15:19.306
00:15:19.306 --> 00:15:31.446
00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:37.068
00:15:37.068 --> 00:15:40.168
00:15:40.168 --> 00:15:43.625
00:15:43.625 --> 00:15:47.730
00:15:47.730 --> 00:15:57.331
00:15:57.331 --> 00:16:12.504
00:16:12.745 --> 00:16:16.107
00:16:16.107 --> 00:16:18.765
00:16:18.765 --> 00:16:23.528
00:16:23.528 --> 00:16:26.750
00:16:26.750 --> 00:16:59.865
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:07.390
00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:17.242
00:17:17.242 --> 00:17:19.009
00:17:19.009 --> 00:17:24.428
00:17:24.428 --> 00:17:27.368
00:17:27.368 --> 00:17:30.989
00:17:30.989 --> 00:17:39.126
00:17:39.126 --> 00:17:40.163
00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:41.523
00:17:41.523 --> 00:17:48.221
00:17:48.221 --> 00:17:57.171
00:17:57.171 --> 00:18:03.247
00:18:03.247 --> 00:18:05.105
00:18:05.105 --> 00:18:06.364
00:18:06.364 --> 00:18:08.423
00:18:08.423 --> 00:18:17.826
00:18:17.826 --> 00:18:24.384
00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.368
00:18:28.368 --> 00:18:39.068
00:18:39.068 --> 00:18:45.428
00:18:45.428 --> 00:18:52.144
00:18:52.144 --> 00:18:52.962
00:18:52.962 --> 00:18:55.001
00:18:55.001 --> 00:19:00.384
00:19:00.384 --> 00:19:02.306
00:19:02.306 --> 00:19:04.928
00:19:04.928 --> 00:19:06.786
00:19:06.786 --> 00:19:08.261
00:19:08.563 --> 00:19:14.045
00:19:14.045 --> 00:19:19.266
00:19:19.266 --> 00:19:26.548
00:19:26.548 --> 00:19:28.884
00:19:28.884 --> 00:19:31.146
00:19:31.146 --> 00:19:33.867
00:19:33.867 --> 00:19:37.262
00:19:37.262 --> 00:19:42.846
00:19:42.846 --> 00:19:45.807
00:19:45.807 --> 00:20:01.269
00:20:01.269 --> 00:20:15.489
00:20:15.489 --> 00:20:20.192
00:20:20.192 --> 00:20:20.982
00:20:20.982 --> 00:20:22.888
00:20:22.888 --> 00:20:25.367
00:20:25.367 --> 00:20:32.548
00:20:32.548 --> 00:20:40.066
00:20:40.066 --> 00:20:42.506
00:20:42.506 --> 00:20:52.806
00:20:52.806 --> 00:20:58.249
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:09.431
00:21:09.431 --> 00:21:11.627
00:21:11.627 --> 00:21:41.339
00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:49.742
00:21:49.742 --> 00:21:55.700
00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:58.784
00:21:58.784 --> 00:22:00.521
00:22:00.795 --> 00:22:16.179
00:22:16.934 --> 00:22:23.823
00:22:23.823 --> 00:22:24.538
00:22:24.538 --> 00:22:30.903
00:22:30.903 --> 00:22:43.398
00:22:43.398 --> 00:22:44.142
00:22:44.142 --> 00:23:06.042
00:23:06.934 --> 00:23:10.586
00:23:10.586 --> 00:23:13.064
00:23:13.064 --> 00:23:15.301
00:23:15.301 --> 00:23:19.326
00:23:19.326 --> 00:23:21.041
00:23:21.041 --> 00:23:25.301
00:23:25.414 --> 00:23:28.797
00:23:28.797 --> 00:23:47.039
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:58.961
00:23:58.961 --> 00:24:00.641
00:24:00.641 --> 00:24:06.662
00:24:06.755 --> 00:24:07.878
00:24:07.878 --> 00:24:09.144
00:24:09.144 --> 00:24:10.842
00:24:10.842 --> 00:24:13.659
00:24:13.659 --> 00:24:20.921
00:24:20.921 --> 00:24:24.558
00:24:25.595 --> 00:24:29.640
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:36.000
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:59.482
00:24:59.482 --> 00:25:06.143